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Posted by admin on 2019-01-12 in 上海性息 with No Comments

MARK DAVIS: Gentlemen, thanks to both of you for joining us.


Firstly to you Boris Kagarlitsky. You’ve criticised the Russian Government for the handling of this crisis. What else could they have done? How else could this have ended?

BORIS KAGARLITSKY, THE MOSCOW TIMES: Well first of all the problem is not just in Russian Government handling the crisis wrongly. It is also the problem of Russian authorities making the crisis happening and also more importantly, it is about Russian authorities not telling the whole truth to the population and to the media. And of course all these lies started getting exposed that created quite a lot of anger inside the country.

MARK DAVIS: It’s a big claim to say that the government made it happen. Why do you say that?

BORIS KAGARLITSKY: Well first of all, it is very clear that everybody expected these terrorists attacks to happen already for quite some time. It was clear that the attacks were in making and the security operators actually knew that the attack were in making and more, the release of the security agencies that at least certain sections of the security apparatus were not really interested in preventing these attacks from happening because of the power struggle within the intelligence security community and inside the Kremlin itself.

MARK DAVIS: Ambassador Moiseev, is the Russian government responsible for this tragedy is it in their making?

LEONID MOISEEV, RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO AUSTRALIA: There are lots of people now condemning Russian Government or Russian local authorities for what happened. But I can tell 10 days ago I was in Moscow and the obvious suggestion or the obvious idea was that we could expect some more terrorist attacks and probably in Moscow and when I was in Moscow, all the schools in Moscow were checked very thoroughly. Moscow is a very huge country. Ossetia was one of the safest places in Russia. Never before terrorist attacks occur in Ossetia. I think probably local authorities were probably not as vigilant as authorities say in Moscow or in other Russian cities near Chechen borders.

MARK DAVIS: Russia has received enormous international sympathy since these deaths. How is it playing out in the streets of Moscow?

BORIS KAGARLITSKY: Just yesterday we have learned there was a publication of some media that at least two of the terrorists were actually registered as being in jail serving prison sentences inside Russia. So how did they manage to get into Beslan while according to papers they’re serving these sentences.

MARK DAVIS: I’m not sure what you’re implying. What are the consequences of these facts?

BORIS KAGARLITSKY: The consequence is, these people who are known terrorists, who were actually in jail, were either let out of jail or were actually themselves somehow involved with the security agencies and anyhow, these are not some kind of unknown persons whom nobody knew before, who emerged from the middle of nowhere. These were people who were known as terrorists, they were in jail, at least they were very much under control.

MARK DAVIS: Ambassador Moiseeva, a quick response to some of those multiple allegations.

LEONID MOISEEV: Once more we have more conspiracy theories produced by Boris, and it’s a fantastic claim that terrorist organisation have be infiltrated by security forces. I think it was an enormous failure of intelligence forces of Russia and an enormous failure of the security. But I cannot agree that well there’s this claim that all terrorist cells had been infiltrated by Russian security forces.

MARK DAVIS: Well, your country certainly seems to be under siege this week. We’ve had the hijackings, bombings and of course this tragedy. Are you bracing yourself for for more attacks and what do you think the Government’s likely response will be?

LEONID MOISEEV: Of course we’ve seen a string of very vicious attacks against Russia recently and I can say that we now have only certain fragments of a mosaic and we must put all these pieces together to understand what’s happening in Russia now. We are obviously under attack and we are obviously being attacked by terrorists and probably by a very sophisticated terrorist who want to destabilise not only Caucasus but Russia entities.

MARK DAVIS: Well Boris Kagarlitsky this is obviously a very traumatic event for Russians. What’s the likely response going to be?

BORIS KAGARLITSKY: I think the whole thing is very much about destabilising Putin’s regime, Putin’s entourage. It’s very much like the continuation of the same story we witnessed five years ago in 1999 when all these explosions and terrorist attacks, which suddenly started, they helped Putin to come to power. The making of Putin was very much the outcome of these terrorist attacks.

LEONID MOISEEV: Well, I can say probably that we can speculate about this being an attack on Putin personally. I’m not saying anything definitely because it’s too premature probably but what is obvious is that Russia now has a strong president, a president who has an agenda, a president with a mission. He wants to make Russia again a strong, respected country in the world and of course not everybody within Russia or outside Russia wants this to happen.

MARK DAVIS: There’s definitely going to be a response by the President. What response do you think that will be? Where are we heading?

LEONID MOISEEV: Well, my suggestion or my idea is that we will have probably two ways of dealing with today’s situation. First of all, of course, much more attention will be paid to Chechnya. I mean not in military terms. Of course security but we will pay much more attention to peaceful life in Chechnya, trying to win over the population of Chechnya. Because if we cannot win over the population, all our efforts are absolutely fruitless. And secondly, of course, there will be much more attention to the overall security of Russia.

MARK DAVIS: Certain allegations have been made of al-Qa’ida connections in these attacks. What’s your assessment of those claims?

BORIS KAGARLITSKY: I think that al-Qa’ida is very much like a myth. I don’t want to say it doesn’t exist but I mean it’s very much a useful tool for politicians to explain certain things through al-Qa’ida. I do not believe really quite a lot of things Americans are saying about al-Qa’ida and even less so I believe what Russian government is saying about al-Qa’ida. Because very often you try to present international terrorism as the easiest explanation of everything happening anywhere and also, it’s an extremely good excuse for you doing certain things like invading Afghanistan, bombing Chechnya, attacking Iraq and then you always discover al-Qa’ida there. No, I think al-Qa’ida is very much an invention of politicians. The type of al-Qa’ida we’re speaking about is very much a myth.

LEONID MOISEEV: Well, today at lunch time I watched an extremely interesting TV report on SBS program about al-Qa’ida and about al-Qa’ida visiting Russia five year ago. I think was reported that he visited Chechnya and Chechnya is a nice, absolutely marvellous base for future operations of international terrorism. I was a very good and professional report. I can remind you that probably three years ago when I first came to Australia, one of the first things I learned about is that there is a website, Chechen website operating from Sydney. And this website lists the name of people who went to Chechnya all over the world to fight for Chechen cause. Among these people were nationals have about 12 countries including Middle East and Africa.

MARK DAVIS: Gentlemen, we’ll have to leave it there but thanks again to both of you for joining us.


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